["It was from a humanizing perspective and was not one of
objectifying or exploitation," said Chinonye Chukwu in an interview
regarding ‘Till’]
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PORTSIDE CULTURE

’TILL’ DIRECTOR APPROACHED THE TRAGEDY OF EMMETT TILL THROUGH THE
EYES OF HIS GRIEVING MOTHER  
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Rich Juzwiak
October 14, 2022
Jezebel
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_ "It was from a humanizing perspective and was not one of
objectifying or exploitation," said Chinonye Chukwu in an interview
regarding ‘Till’ _

Danielle Deadwyler (left) as Mamie Till-Mobley and Jalyn Hall (right)
as Emmett Till in Till, Image: Orion Pictures

 

Mamie Till-Mobley was a visionary. She understood the power of an
image, and her use of it—specifically, the image of her lynched
son’s mutilated body—changed the course of American history. Her
story and legacy are captured in the new film by _Clemency_
[[link removed]] writer-director
Chinonye Chukwu, _Till_. The film tells the story of Emmett Till’s
1955 summer vacation to Mississippi, where, after an interaction with
a white woman who ran a store, he was hunted down and lynched. The
film follows Emmett (Jalyn Hall) and his concerned mother at home in
Chicago, Mamie (Danielle Deadwyler) until the scene of his murder,
which happens offscreen. The perspective then shifts to Mamie and her
fight for her son’s justice, as well as her decision to publish
pictures of his body in _Jet_, a move that brought lynching into the
national spotlight and is credited with galvanizing the Civil Rights
movement.

Chukwu’s film delicately examines Mamie’s sharing of her private
pain for the greater good. While her action prompted a
reckoning, _Till_ further excavates the humanity of a story that has
effectively become lore in the United States. It’s a movie about a
grieving mother and her emotional experience, and Deadwyler’s
performance is gut-wrenching. As in Chukwu’s previous movie,
there’s an emotionally climactic close-up on her protagonist’s
face for several minutes that transmits a wealth of information. This
arresting setup is becoming a signature of Chukwu’s. And as
with _Clemency_, Chukwu said that the scene was not planned to only
contain said closeup, but there was no other sensible choice when she
saw her actor’s performance.

Chukwu worked on the script with _Till_ producer Keith Beauchamp,
the director of the 2005 documentary _The Untold Story of Emmett
Louis Till_, who has close ties with the Till family. Whoopi Goldberg
produced and plays Alma Carthan, Mamie’s mother. Earlier this week
via Zoom, Chukwu told Jezebel about her approach to the material,
finding joy on set, and refraining from exploitation. A condensed and
edited transcript of that conversation is below.

TILL | Official Trailer 2

JEZEBEL: WHEN PREPARING THE MOVIE AND YOUR SCRIPT, DID YOU TALK TO
ANYBODY FROM THE TILL ESTATE? DOES SUCH AN ESTATE EXIST?

CHINONYE CHUKWU: No, it’s members of the Till family. I was really
fortunate to walk into a situation where one of the producers, Keith
Beauchamp, was a mentee of Mamie and had spent decades and decades of
his life uncovering the facts of the story and reopening the case.
He’s had deep relationships with various members of the Till family,
who were advisors on this film and supporters, and really made
themselves available to me as resources. I visited Mississippi a few
times as part of my own research process and met with various members
of the family.

DID YOU ALWAYS KNOW THAT THE MOVIE WAS GOING TO FOLLOW MAMIE AS
CLOSELY AS IT DOES?

Oh yeah. When I was first approached to make this, I met with the
producers, and I said, “The only way I would be interested in making
this film and telling the story is if it is told through Mamie’s
point of view, and it is about her journey in fighting for justice for
her son, but also her journey evolving and expanding activist
consciousness.” Without Mamie Till-Mobley, the world wouldn’t know
who Emmett Till was.

HOW DID YOU BALANCE FILM’S INHERENT GOAL TO ENTERTAIN WITH THE
PRESENTATION OF SUCH HEAVY MATERIAL?

I’m story-first. I knew that my guiding light was Mamie. I
approached this as almost a character study of Mamie and her journey,
and I kept it so focused on her. Once I decide the narrative arc and
the trajectory and the point of view, I’m very disciplined in making
sure that I don’t veer off of that. That made it easier for me to
stay on track narratively and to keep the cinematic scope. That
informed the visual language and my directorial vision. At this point
in my craft, I have a very clear understanding of what kinds of
choices I need to keep the story cinematic, but also very focused, as
well.

IS THAT A MATTER OF GOING WITH YOUR GUT AND TRUSTING YOURSELF AS AN
ARTIST?

I’m a meticulous planner, and very intentional when constructing my
directorial vision. I’m very meticulous about planning shots with my
director of photography and constructing visual motifs and getting
clarity within myself about what the emotional subtext is. Scene by
scene: Whose scene is it, what emotional point of view are we
favoring? Visual parallels. Sonic parallels. I develop that and get
real clear about that beforehand.

And then when I’m on set, I’m so prepared that I’m comfortable
throwing everything out the window when problems arise or days get
cut, budgets. Mamie’s testimony, the long take, that was not
planned. I had eight or nine other setups that I thought we were going
to do. The close-up was the first setup. And after the first take,
Danielle got a standing ovation from the crew. I was like, “Damn.”
It was incredible. We adjusted some framing composition with the hands
of the lawyers, and the ring, and the pictures, so we could be clear
about the world beyond the frame. My cinematographer and I timed out
when the camera was going to pan around Mamie so it could parallel the
emotionality of the scene. It took six takes for the construction of
that to be just perfect. And the sixth take is what was in the film.

WAS THERE ANYTHING YOU SPECIFICALLY TOLD JALYN IN TERMS OF WHAT TO
PROJECT?

I shared with him some research and interviews of people from people
who knew Emmett. He read Mr. Simeon Wright’s autobiography and
listened to interviews that Mamie had done, where she talked about
Emmett’s personality. When you’re directing kids, I learned that
you keep it simple and you keep it succinct. You don’t want to
inundate them with all of this direction. Jalyn naturally has the
charisma and the charm and talent and this childhood innocence that
Emmett embodied. So it’s also empowering Jalyn to be himself. He and
Danielle leaned into the natural chemistry that they had and played it
to that which was really beautiful to watch.

THE DETAILS OF EMMETT’S INTERACTION WITH CAROLYN BRYANT HAVE
BEEN DEBATED
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NATURE OF HIS WHISTLE, FOR EXAMPLE, AND WHETHER IT WAS A WOLF WHISTLE
OR SOMETHING HE WAS DOING FOR HIS STUTTER. HOW DID YOU DECIDE ON WHAT
TO PORTRAY THERE?

It’s based on the decades of research that Keith had done. He really
did a phenomenal job unpacking what happened by the testimonies of the
people who were there and speaking with family members and reopening
case files as well. But I’ll say this: Whether or not he whistled,
it doesn’t matter. It has no bearing on how people should receive or
respond to what happened to him.

WHETHER OR NOT HE WHISTLED, IT DOESN’T MATTER. IT HAS NO BEARING ON
HOW PEOPLE SHOULD RECEIVE OR RESPOND TO WHAT HAPPENED TO HIM.

THE MOVIE TOUCHES ON THE CONTROVERSY THAT MAMIE SHARED THE IMAGE OF
HER SON’S MUTILATED BODY WITH THE WORLD. HOW DID YOU APPROACH THE
DECISION TO SHOW A RECREATED VERSION OF HIS BODY? WERE YOU THINKING AT
ALL ABOUT EXPLOITATION AND HOW TO AVOID IT?

I knew that showing Emmett’s body was an extension of Mamie’s
decision to have the world see what happened to her son. And my
approach in how I wanted to show the body was to come from a place of
humanizing, not objectifying. When we’re looking at the scene where
Mamie is seeing Emmett’s body for the first time in the funeral
home, we don’t see the body for a while. We just preserve the
private, intimate moment that Mamie is having, because this scene is
about Mamie’s relationship and reconnection with her son and his
body. The camera is not a voyeur. The way that his body is presented,
the way I chose to make this film was from a critical care
perspective. It was from a humanizing perspective and was not one of
objectifying or exploitation.

I ASSUME THAT NOT SHOWING EMMETT’S LYNCHING IS AN EXTENSION OF THIS
ETHOS.

Absolutely. It’s not narratively necessary. I don’t want to see it
or recreate it as a human being, as a Black person. And it’s also a
way for me to show care for audiences.

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THIS MOVIE COMING AT A TIME WHEN CRITICAL RACE
THEORY IS UNDER ATTACK FROM THE RIGHT, MEMBERS OF WHOM SEEM ALLERGIC
TO THE ELUCIDATION OF SYSTEMIC RACISM AND ASPECTS OF AMERICAN HISTORY?

Especially before midterms, right? We’re in a time when states are
actively trying to pass legislation to not teach the truth about this
world in the country that we live in. And so I hope that this film can
help challenge that and correct that and really help push people to
want to learn more, and about the history that really is directly tied
to our present reality.

IN GENERAL, HOW WAS THE MOOD ON THE SET? GIVEN THE HEAVINESS OF THE
MATERIAL, WAS THERE ANY ROOM FOR JOKES OR ANY OTHER KIND OF LEVITY?

Yeah, there had to be. I approached making the film by making sure
that we see, feel, and understand the love, the joy, the community
alongside the inherent pain and trauma. That’s a part of the story,
and that’s life, right? On a personal level, I’m very intentional
about my joy. And the cast and crew and myself, we honored the story
that we’re telling and the seriousness of it. But it was so
important, just as human beings, that we do bring levity in as much as
we can and lighten the mood a little bit. There were days when it was
more solemn and quiet and we had to honor and respect that. We had a
therapist on set every day who was a resource for all of us, cast and
crew, before, during, and after shooting. I limited the takes of
certain scenes to just two takes, because I didn’t want actors to go
through that multiple, multiple, multiple times. And the parents of
the children were on set everyday. When we were shooting the scene
where Emmett is abducted, Jalyn after a take or two asked if he could
get a hug from his mom. So we stop everything and he gets a hug from
his mom. Whatever anybody needed in order to protect their wellbeing,
they got because we’re human beings first and foremost.

DID YOU FIND THIS PROJECT DAUNTING AT ALL?

I mean, I definitely had a little bit of anxiety and fear to get it
right. But I always want to have a little bit of fear when making a
film. I had fear with _Clemency_ because when I decided to make that
film, I knew nothing about the prison system or wardens. Nothing.
With _Till_, I felt like I had, as a human being, as a Black woman
that grew up in America, an acute awareness of the cultural and
historical significance of the story and the weight that is on me to
make sure I get this right. But any anxiety or fear I had, that just
held me accountable to do the best job that I can with the purest
intentions.

AT WHAT POINT WAS THAT ANXIETY OR FEAR ASSUAGED?

When I decided to do the film. The weight of it was always there. And
it’s still there to this day. But it’s not about whether or not
you’re afraid or anxious, it’s about how you move forward in spite
of it.

YOU’RE PROUD OF THE MOVIE. I ASSUME YOU LIKE IT.

I like my film.

WHEN DID YOU KNOW THAT IT WAS GOOD?

I knew we were making something special from the set. I knew we were
making something special from when we cast Danielle. Everybody—cast,
crew, everybody—gave such excellent work. We were so locked in and
clear about what we were doing and rose to the occasion tremendously.
I knew that we were making something special when we were shooting it.
And, you know, I am the absolute hardest person on myself. I mean,
there is nobody harder on me than myself. I am an absolute
perfectionist when it comes to my work. So for me to feel this way,
I’m like, “Okay, we got it.”

* lynching
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* Emmett Till
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* till
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* racial violence
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* Black Mothers
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