[With the pandemic entering its third year in a country exhausted
by a dysfunctional political system, how do we regain a healthy sense
of humor to help see us through this mess?] [[link removed]]

IS IT OKAY TO LAUGH? WE TALK COMEDY IN A TIME OF COVID AND RISING
FASCISM WITH POLITICAL COMEDIAN FRANCESCA FIORENTINI  
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John Tarleton
February 14, 2022
Indypendent [[link removed]]

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_ With the pandemic entering its third year in a country exhausted by
a dysfunctional political system, how do we regain a healthy sense of
humor to help see us through this mess? _

, Illustration: Lynne Foster.

 

Every weekday at 6 p.m., CNN viewers can tune into _The Situation
Room with Wolf Blitzer_, the self-described “command center for
breaking news, politics and extraordinary reports from around the
world.”

Somewhere in a distant news galaxy far from the centers of
power, _The Bitchuation Room _podcast rounds up political comics,
activists and thinkers every Sunday evening on YouTube and Twitch for
conversations at once irreverent and far more illuminating than
anything on cable news. Presiding over this mashup is Francesca
Fiorentini. The show is the latest endeavor of the former New York
City-based anti-war activist turned constantly-hustling political
comedian and commentator. She also appears on _The Damage Report _on
The Young Turks Network and is the host and lead writer of
AJ+’s _Newsbroke_, which airs short, entertaining videos that use a
light-hearted touch to unpack complex topics such as white fragility
in the workplace and the history of socialism in America. Think John
Oliver but with more explicitly anti-capitalist politics.

With the pandemic entering its third year in a country exhausted by a
dysfunctional political system, endless culture wars and looming
climate change, laughter is in short supply. So, how can we regain a
healthy sense of humor to help see us through this mess? I checked in
with Fiorentini to get some answers.

In a wide-ranging conversation, we discussed, among other things, her
journey from some of the more hidebound corners of the left to a
career in comedy, how to step into the absurdity of our times and what
progressives can learn from Donald Trump, the stand-up performer.

_THE INDYPENDENT: TELL US ABOUT YOUR EVOLUTION FROM THE MID-2000S WHEN
YOU WERE A YOUNG ANTIWAR ACTIVIST AND AN EDITOR AT _LEFT TURN
MAGAZINE _TO THE PRESENT DAY? IT SEEMS LIKE AN UNLIKELY BEGINNING TO
A CAREER IN COMEDY._

FRANCESCA FIORENTINI: The left has been very self-isolating for a long
time, and can be insular on purpose. I think it is so necessary to
make our movements and our politics attractive and fun to be around
— and enticing. Through my work in independent media and left media
spaces, it became clear to me that there have to be content creators
who are leftists, who are bringing our message to a wider audience in
a way that is accessible. Because so much of left politics is
inaccessible.

Coming up as a young activist, it was a badge of honor on the left to
be esoteric and know all the different Trotskyist splits or other
obscure points like that. It showed you were down for the cause. But
that doesn’t attract anybody. For me, I decided I’m on the
propaganda team when it comes to being for broader social change, for
democratic socialism, the revolution, whatever you want to call it.
I’m good at it, and I have fun. On the left, we pride ourselves on
working ourselves to the bone. And that’s not always good. However
one chooses to engage in politics, let it be sustainable. Comedy has
made it sustainable for me, and has made it enjoyable and hopefully
attractive and interesting and compelling to others as they see my
work.

_SO HOW DID YOU GO INTO COMEDY?_

I lived abroad in Buenos Aires, Argentina, for five years. I was
writing about Latin American politics for various outlets. I was also
doing weird YouTube videos in my apartment that were political comedy.
In 2009, I did stand-up comedy for the first time. It was for a
foreign, English-speaking crowd. So most of my jokes were about being
an expat — like the time a Latin lover sweeps an unassuming gringa
off her feet, or when a tourist gets robbed for the first time.

On the left we are often taught to suppress the creative side. So I
had put that on the back burner. But then when I was living in another
country, it was a perfect opportunity. And to be honest, it was a
low-stakes place to try out being a comedian. Either you do well on
stage or you eat shit and then retool.

_SO YOU MOVED TO SAN FRANCISCO IN 2013 AND CONTINUED TO DO STAND-UP
COMEDY WHILE ALSO PRODUCING AND HOSTING A SHOW FOR AL JAZEERA PLUS.
AND THEN 2016 AND DONALD TRUMP HAPPENED._

I decided I really wanted to do a show that wasn’t just a snarky
remark every once in a while, but one that was actually funny and
written to have a punchline, but that also educated people. That’s
how _Newsbroke _came about. Our biggest hit was a segment on white
fragility in the workplace which is still so relevant. We also
explored topics like socialism and why Americans are so afraid of it.

I used to write 2,500-word articles. With video, you really learn how
to economize and, sadly, learn how to write for a distracted, severely
online not just generation but culture — and that comes with good
and bad.

_WHAT MAKES FOR GOOD POLITICAL COMEDY?_

The best political comedy punches up, not down. Also, it doesn’t
always hit you over the head and doesn’t assume that you’re on
board. You still have to make an argument, whether it’s a setup in a
joke before a punchline, or whether the argument is a comedic
monologue. Nobody wants to hear a smug insider like Bill Maher. He’s
become so self-satisfied it’s like he enjoys the smell of his own
farts.

Trump spawned so many different comedy shows, which was really good
but at the same time [it] became kind of safe making the same Trump
jokes. Like regular journalists, a lot of comedy journalists don’t
want to lose their access. So they’re afraid to ask hard or weird
questions. I’ve had some big gets, and I always try to push them and
make them feel a little uncomfortable.

_WHO ARE COMEDIANS WHO INSPIRE YOU?_

John Oliver has done an excellent job at breaking down otherwise
boring concepts using jokes. He doesn’t really talk about
capitalism. He’s working with HBO, and they rely on corporate money
just as anyone else in corporate media. Michelle Wolf is an incredible
stand-up comic. Her short-lived show on Netflix had some of the
funniest, smartest segments and sketches that I’ve seen. I love Roy
Wood Jr. He’s part of _The Daily Show_, but he’s got such a great
political sensibility that is still funny and attractive.

_TALK ABOUT THE CHALLENGES OF BEING A FEMALE COMIC._

Successful comics say it takes many years to find your voice. In my
case, I’ve always had a really strong voice. The question is: how do
I temper it? You can’t always lead with anger — though white men
are generally afforded more leeway to be angry on stage, and they are
the ones for whom the most prestigious roles in political comedy have
traditionally been reserved. It’s a lot more difficult for people of
color and especially women to go full throttle into political comedy,
because they are immediately seen as unlikeable.

You want to be likable, right? Well, there’s a stigma if you are a
woman who’s talking about politics or feminism or whatever. At the
same time, a lot of women and people of color get pigeonholed into
only talking about women’s issues, or only talking about people of
color issues. That has its own sort of cynical, essentialist identity
politics that I’m not a huge lover of, as someone who’s always had
passion for talking about war and militarism and capitalism.

_WHEN I WAS GROWING UP, COMEDY WAS ASSOCIATED WITH GUYS LIKE BOB HOPE,
JOHNNY CARSON, DAVID LETTERMAN, RODNEY DANGERFIELD._

Which is coming back. There’s a backlash in comedy against the
presence of more comedians of color and women, even though it’s
still not an even playing field. It mirrors the backlash in politics
where white men feel aggrieved, that the world is against them just
being a dude. So they make fun of women and make fun of abortion
rights, or just make fun of trans people. And that gives them a sense
of power and belonging and identity. It’s straight-up white identity
politics, and their audience loves it.

_THE AVATAR OF THIS HAS TO BE DONALD TRUMP HIMSELF. WHAT DO YOU MAKE
OF TRUMP AS A FELLOW STAND-UP PERFORMER, AND THE WAY HE DEVELOPS NEW
MATERIAL?_

He’s always on tour. And as much as I hate to say it, he’s funny.
His callousness is funny, because it’s so stupid. And so crass. One
lesson we can learn from him is to say what’s on your mind. Let it
all hang out instead of couching it. MAGA wants a white ethnostate. I
want socialist democracy.

_HOW DO YOU FIND HUMOR IN THESE GRIM TIMES?_

You have to laugh not to cry. But first you have to allow yourself to
feel the anger before you can step into the absurdity of the moment.
In Florida, Gov. Ron DeSantis recently enacted a straight-up white
fragility bill that says nothing taught in a public school or in a
private business can cause discomfort among, let’s be real, white
people. It’s like a parody of a satirical video I made five years
ago about white fragility in the workplace. But it’s really
happening.

_YOUR THOUGHTS ON DOING POLITICAL COMEDY FOR BROADCAST VERSUS ACTUAL
LIVE STAND-UP?_

It’s so different. When I produce a video for _Newsbroke_, the goal
is to lay out an argument about a particular topic I’m doing a deep
dive on. On stage, the goal is to get the laughs without, of course,
compromising your values. You get immediate feedback. During the
pandemic, I’ve missed hearing people’s laughter.

What’s wonderful about _The Bitchuation Room _podcast is I get to
bring my full self to it. I get to be inane and irreverent and be
deeply interested in the topics — climate change, capitalism,
rewriting the Constitution, etc. In left spaces, there’s often a
demand you either be a clown or a super-serious militant. When you can
mix the two it’s a beautiful combo. Imagine, for example,
facilitating a climate change discussion between Bill McKibben and a
political comic and seeing where it goes. There aren’t many spaces
for that, but I’ve been able to carve one out.

_YOU’VE BECOME A BRAND._

Ugh, I hate the journey into brandhood. There’s good things about
starting your own podcast and being independent. I am grateful for the
support I get from people who like my show and my comedy. But,
there’s also the reality that being an influencer or a brand is kind
of just another way that capitalism has created a gig economy for the
entertainment world.

The algorithms of places like Facebook, Instagram and Twitter are very
demanding. I often find myself making more promotional content than
writing or doing something creative. You have to vie for shrinking
attention spans. There’s not a lot of glamor or protection in that.

_WHAT DO YOU SEE AS THE FUTURE OF COMEDY?_

I think we’re heading for a “shit-is-getting-real” moment where
the window for whether things are still funny is closing and the
window for real fascism is getting wider, especially with Biden not
rising to the task at hand. What that means for comedy is people will
have more of an appetite for comedy that honestly sounds like
political speech, like rabble rousing. It won’t feel stale, because
we’ll be like, “I have my pitchfork. Let’s go.”

_Francesca Fiorentini will host a live Bitchuation Room podcast
Thursday March 10 at The Bell House in Brooklyn. Special guests will
include City Councilmember Tiffany Cabán, Sam Seder of The Majority
Report and political comic Matt Lieb. For more
see, www.bitchuationroom.com [[link removed]]._

_Welcome to The Indypendent!  We are a free, progressive monthly
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