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'We're Several Days Late and Many Dollars Short in Getting Ahead of Climate Catastrophe' Janine Jackson ([link removed])


Janine Jackson interviewed Michael K. Dorsey about the climate summit for the November 5, 2021, episode ([link removed]) of CounterSpin. This is a lightly edited transcript.

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NYT: A Last Chance to Avert Climate Disaster?

New York Times (11/3/21 ([link removed]) )

Janine Jackson: “A Last Chance to Avert Climate Disaster?” reads a New York Times headline ([link removed]) . "Hundreds of heads of state have gathered in Scotland for the COP26 summit, but skepticism abounds that yet more talks can spur action."

Of course, many people have never believed that talking alone would avert climate disaster or that promises or pledges had meaning by themselves. They just aren’t the kinds of people who have shaped media coverage of climate disruption or efforts to address it. Or, for that matter, the kind of people who can even get indoors at the conferences themselves.

Our next guest has been filling us in on what happens inside and outside of these climate conferences for over a decade ([link removed]) now. Michael K. Dorsey works on issues of global energy, environment, finance and sustainability. He joins us now by phone from Detroit. Welcome back to CounterSpin, Michael Dorsey.

Michael K. Dorsey: Janine, thank you so much for having me. It’s truly my pleasure.

JJ: Just to get started, media today are heralding ([link removed]) curbs on methane, plans to stop deforestation. I assume that that isn’t nothing. But are our expectations set appropriately for these kinds of conferences, and for their impact?

MKD: Unfortunately, where we stand now in the context of the multilateral negotiations around climate, and attempts to get us out ahead of the unfolding climate catastrophe, is we’re basically several days late and many, many dollars short. We need roughly $100 trillion to really seriously begin to tackle this now catastrophe that’s playing out across and around the world. We need, really, more robust commitments than the current Biden administration’s desire to reduce emissions by 50% by the next decade, 2030. We need, really, something like 50% or even 100% more reductions of carbon pollution in the atmosphere to seriously check this unfolding catastrophe. And we need that money, that $100 trillion, much, much sooner than by mid-century, 2050.

So, really, the world’s governments have taken too long, they have not come to the table with sufficient seriousness, sufficient leadership. They haven’t delivered leadership at the scale and state at which we need it. They really aren’t fit for purpose, unfortunately.
WaPo: Biden unveils new rules to curb methane, a potent greenhouse gas, from oil and gas operations

Washington Post (11/2/21 ([link removed]) )

JJ: In contrast to what you’re saying we need, what we’re getting is still being sort of celebrated. And, in particular, you always get the sense from news media of the US as a leader. The New York Times had ([link removed]) , “Biden Will Leave Glasgow with Progress on Climate Change, but the More Important Goals Remain Elusive.” As though that’s what he was there to do.

And then the Washington Post, talking about curbing methane, says ([link removed]) that:

The EPA announcement reflects the Biden administration’s strategy to achieve near-term reductions in greenhouse gas emissions while convincing other nations that America can deliver on its ambitious climate goals.

Now this, mind you, is an announcement of proposed rules from EPA that could establish standards for old wells. And this is sort of being celebrated as the US leading the world, and what we really need to do is convince other countries to do better.

MKD: Well, Janine, look. It’s really important, and it is absolutely true that the Biden administration’s orientation is in the right direction. It’s absolutely a sea change improvement over the hucksterism and shenanigans of the previous administration that literally put not just the United States in a pothole, but really attempted to put the whole planet in a pothole for humanity, and risk ecosystems and social well-being around the Earth, and certainly in the United States.

The Biden administration is committed to increase its funding to the Green Climate Fund, which is the mechanism to support, particularly, the emerging market economies—the developing world, as it were. They want to increase that by about 12%, roughly, calling on Congress to put an extra $1.2 billion into that.

But remember, I told you that we need roughly $100 trillion. So while $1.2 billion is certainly a lot of money, it’s not ten times short, a hundred times short. It’s more like a thousand times short. So, really, the scale at which we need the response, not just from the United States, but from the EU, even from surging economies like India and China, and others, certainly wealthy economies—the Canadians, the Australians, they call themselves the CANZ Group. Really, we need orders of magnitude, not just one or two. But really more like two or three orders of magnitude. More money, more seriousness, more leadership that’s fit for purpose and worthy of our attention.

The failure to deliver is basically going to put more and more lives at risk. It’s going to cause a loss of life, and it’s especially going to damn those on the margins of society. The poor Black and brown folks, certainly in the United States, that are on the front line and fence line of polluting industry, particularly fossil fuel pollution. But also those in the Global South, as it were, the developing world in Africa, in Asia, across Latin America. They’re going to pay with their lives, and they already are.
CNBC: Bill Gates doubts goal of limiting global warming to 1.5 degrees is achievable

CNBC (11/3/21 ([link removed]) )

JJ: Yeah. I wonder, then, what you make of another story ([link removed]) I saw today that had Bill Gates, in an interview, saying, to limit warming to below 2, preferably 1.5 degrees Celsius, compared to pre-industrial levels, as the Paris Agreement calls for, he says, eh, not going to happen. “I doubt that we’ll be able to achieve that.”

MKD: I think Mr. Gates is correct, actually.

JJ: Yeah.

MKD: We’re on a course now where, literally, because of a generation and a half of utter silliness, foolishness from leadership, from elected officials; corruption, sociopathy, really, from the fossil fuel industry; repeated offenses, repeated pollution incidents, not just with C02 pollution, but with a whole host of other pollution, poisoning, killing, destroying communities, certainly on the fence line of those operations, but really even around the world. That generation and a half of sociopathy really has really put the planet on a course that we’re going to see not just rising temperatures, we’re going to see sea level rise on the minimum of three to six feet, a meter or two meters. Right now in New York City, cities like Miami, they’re planning, they’ve got city plans now, to deal with three to six feet of sea level rise.

JJ: Right.

MKD: That will end what we know as Downtown Manhattan. It will be gone. So that’s the course we’re on, and it’s really because of the lackluster leadership. So we’ve got to now think about really massively upping up our game, to get out ahead of what we can get out ahead of, and also to put resources to protect those communities that are going to be on the brunt end of this unfolding crisis.

JJ: Yeah, I guess I’d just like him to sound a little angrier about it.

When we spoke ([link removed]) in 2011, after Durban, South Africa, you said, “Visionary leadership is at the community level.” In 2013, after Warsaw, you said ([link removed]) : “Civil society doesn’t just protest. They do and deliver.” I wonder if you can address that idea, about where leadership actually is happening, and who are some voices that maybe we would benefit from hearing more from.
Michael K. Dorsey

Michael K. Dorsey: "It’s going to be citizens and individuals that are going to keep the pressure on those leaders to be more ambitious."

MKD: I stand by that comment from over a decade ago. I appreciate you pulling that. And I’ll stand by it today, and I’ll stand by it when they lay me down low.

The reality is that the aggressive posturing, which is certainly, again, in the right direction, that we see from the Biden administration, that we see from other governments around the world, is a direct result of pressure from the people. It’s a direct result of that street heat being put to those in those C suites.

So it’s going to be people that are going to carry the day on this. Unfortunately, some will pay with their lives. But it’s those individuals, citizens, social movements, civil society, that are going to push leaders, the representatives who work for them, in the first place. Many of those leaders don’t recognize or remember that they’re actually representing civil society and citizens, as it were. But it’s going to be citizens and individuals that are going to keep the pressure on those leaders to be more ambitious, and to go and do much more than they’re doing now. And that’s always going to be the case, I think.

JJ: I guess I would just end back at that New York Times headline ([link removed]) , “A Last Chance to Avert Climate Disaster?” I think you’re saying Glasgow is not the last chance, that there’s a whole lot of other stuff that needs to happen, and we do need more leadership. But maybe putting all our eyes on these conferences is not the right place to look for the energy we need for the change.

MKD: We can’t be angry with what we see in the multilateral process. We definitely don’t want to confuse the concern and the extent of the crisis, and mix that up with being angry. We’ve got to be strategic.

I think there’s a great number of individuals and institutions in civil society, certainly in the non-governmental organization space, but also those in the private sector, those that are building out photovoltaics and solar and wind, and putting that in the ground, and doing that at a hurried pace, to really be fit for purpose and fit for scale to tackle this problem.

So there is a tremendous amount of hope. But it may not necessarily come out of these meetings, so to speak. But it’s going to come from people doing that hard work, putting in that sweat equity, and getting out ahead of this problem.

JJ: We’ve been speaking with Michael K. Dorsey. Michael Dorsey, thank you so much for joining us this week on CounterSpin.

MKD: Truly, truly my pleasure.
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