[Democracy Now speaks with Ziad Abu-Rish, a historian and research
fellow at the Lebanese Center for Policy Studies and co-director of
Bard College’s Masters of Arts program in human rights and the
arts.] [[link removed]]

LEBANON’S GOV’T RESIGNS AMID PUBLIC RAGE OVER BEIRUT BLAST, BUT
PROTESTERS DEMAND STRUCTURAL CHANGE  
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Ziad Abu-Rish
August 11, 2020
Democracy Now
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_ Democracy Now speaks with Ziad Abu-Rish, a historian and research
fellow at the Lebanese Center for Policy Studies and co-director of
Bard College’s Masters of Arts program in human rights and the arts.
_

Lebanon is in the throes of its worst crisis for many years, AFP

 

After days of protests, Lebanon’s government has resigned following
the devastating explosion at the Port of Beirut that killed 200 people
and injured thousands. The port blast, the source of which was 2,700
tons of highly explosive ammonium nitrate left unattended in a
warehouse for more than six years, occurred as Lebanon was already
facing political, economic and public health crises. We speak with
Ziad Abu-Rish, a historian and research fellow at the Lebanese Center
for Policy Studies and co-director of Bard College’s Masters of Arts
program in human rights and the arts, who says despite public outrage
toppling the government, structural change may be harder to attain.
“The fall of cabinets and even the holding of early parliamentary
elections are not necessarily signs that fundamental transformation is
underway in Lebanon,” Abu-Rish says. “For now at least, this is
politics as usual.”

Transcript: This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final
form.

AMY GOODMAN: We begin in Lebanon, where the government resigned
Monday, following days of protest after more than 200 people were
killed and thousands injured in a devastating blast at Beirut’s
port. Dozens of people are still missing, many of them foreign
workers. Prime Minister Hassan Diab announced his resignation in a
televised address.

PRIME MINISTER HASSAN DIAB: [translated] We follow the will of the
people to hold accountable those responsible for this disaster, that
has been in hiding for seven years, and their desire for real change,
from the corrupt, destructive state, state of brokerages and theft, to
the state of law and justice and transparency, to a country that
respects its people. In the face of this reality, we take a step back
to stand with the people to undergo this battle of change with them.
We want to open the door toward national salvation that the Lebanese
people are taking part in, and thus I am announcing today the
resignation of this government.

AMY GOODMAN: The Lebanese president, Michel Aoun, accepted Diab’s
resignation but asked him to stay on in a caretaker capacity until a
new cabinet is formed. Last week’s explosion was triggered by 2,700
tons of highly explosive ammonium nitrate left unattended in a
warehouse at the port for over six years. The port blast came at a
time when Lebanon’s already facing political, economic and public
health crises.

Ziad Abu-Rish joins us now from Beirut, Lebanon, a historian and
research fellow at the Lebanese Center for Policy Studies and
co-director of Bard College’s Master of Arts program in human rights
and the arts.

Welcome to _Democracy Now!_ It’s great to have you with us, Ziad
Abu-Rish. Can you start off by talking about the significance of the
fall of the Lebanese government, but the fact that the government
remains as a caretaker government, this as protesters continue to take
to the streets in the midst of the aftermath of this horrific
explosion?

ZIAD ABU-RISH: Absolutely, Amy. And thank you for having me and
shedding light on this important topic.

The fall of the Diab government was a demand of protesters and critics
of the government, as well as people who participated in the October
2019 revolution in Lebanon and had opposed the formation of this
Cabinet. However, I think it’s also important to recognize that the
fall of this government is also the product of internal conflicts
between the various political parties that make up Lebanon’s
political class.

You mentioned the issue of remaining in power as a caretaker
government. This is actually a very normal state of affairs after
governments submit their resignation. And in fact, the fall of
cabinets and even the holding of early parliamentary elections are not
necessarily signs that fundamental transformation is underway in
Lebanon. For now at least, this is politics as usual. And the big
question for people is: What is going to come in place of this Cabinet
that has just resigned in the wake of the very deadly and devastating
explosion, and a Cabinet that has failed to stem the tide of various
financial, economic, health and infrastructural crises?

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Ziad Abu-Rish, what about the president
himself, Michel Aoun, and the other members of Parliament? Are the
protesters calling for a much more wholesale change in the government?
And if so, what kind of structural changes do you think are needed in
Lebanon today?

ZIAD ABU-RISH: Well, you know, I think it’s important to recognize
that protesters are not necessarily unified in their demands. However,
I think they share a wholesale rejection of the _status quo_, in
which all major political parties in Lebanon are implicated. Whether
it’s President Michel Aoun or presidents that have come before him,
whether it’s Speaker of Parliament Nabih Berri, all members of
Parliament currently or former parliaments, this Cabinet or former
cabinets, they have collectively failed to deliver on any of the
aspirations and needs of the majority of the people who live in
Lebanon, including citizens, refugees, migrant workers and other
people.

I think what we want to look for as we move forward, as an indication
if there’s going to be structural change or not, is who is going to
be appointed to the next cabinet. Is this cabinet going to be an
independent cabinet? Is it going to be comprised of competent persons?
And is it going to be empowered to legislate the necessary laws that
are required to begin the transformation of the political system in
Lebanon and pave the way to some meaningful accountability and
transparency?

For example, the electoral law in Lebanon is constantly voted on and
passed before each election cycle. Electoral laws, as you know,
determine districting, the distribution of seats and the threshold for
making it into office. This has largely allowed for this political
class to reproduce itself every time elections are held. And if the
electoral law is not fundamentally changed, then there’s no reason
to suspect that new elections will result in an entirely new
composition of this Parliament.

Of course, there are other reforms that we can think of that
protesters have demanded for a long time, including judicial reform
for the creation of a truly independent judiciary, an addressment of
the economic crisis, which has only continued to worsen. There has
been no forensic audit to understand what happened and who is
responsible. There have been no stopgap measures taken to prevent the
continuous downward spiral. And, of course, now, in the wake of the
explosion, any new cabinet is going to have to establish a meaningful
investigation of the causes of the explosion and holding those people
responsible. None of these things have happened, not in the Diab
Cabinet and not in other cabinets before them. And this is the
fundamental issue here in Lebanon, if anyone hopes to see the kind of
transformation that most protesters are calling for.

AMY GOODMAN: Can you respond to the French president, Macron, coming
to Lebanon? The opening sentence of an AP report
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begins, “It was almost as if Emmanuel Macron forgot that Lebanon is
no longer a French protectorate.” He was in the streets before
Lebanon’s prime minister was. If you can talk about that
relationship and also the $300 million that have been conferenced, a
donors’ conference set up, and where that money would go?

ZIAD ABU-RISH: Absolutely. Well, the fact that Macron was in the
streets before the prime minister or any other major official in
Lebanon was is more a reflection of the unaccountability of the
Lebanese political class to the population of Lebanon than it is the
goodwill intentions of the president of France.

I think Macron was trying to seize the initiative for France and the
European Union to get ahead of the United States in paving a way for
some type of exit of the political and multiple crises in Lebanon. And
he is perhaps even trying to reposition France in relation to Lebanon
and the broader Middle East.

That being said, I think it’s important to note that France, the
United States, the European Union, the International Monetary Fund,
the World Bank, as well as other powers, like Iran, Russia, Saudi
Arabia, are all complicit in helping create, maintain and sustain the
political system in Lebanon that most protesters are calling for the
downfall of. So, this is either an 11th-hour about-face turn by the
Macron government, and France more generally, or it’s a cynical
attempt to reestablish relationships.

And as you mentioned yourself with that AP report, France was
responsible for creating the state of Lebanon in the aftermath of
World War II and was a colonial power from 1918 to 1946, when it
withdrew. Most of the structural and institutional arrangements that
are with us today in Lebanon were introduced and facilitated through
French governance practices during the colonial period. And I think if
France wants to really change its relationship with Lebanon or
champion the aspirations of the people of Lebanon, it should at least
begin with a public apology and taking responsibility for its role,
past and present, from the establishment of Lebanon through the civil
war and afterwards, in contributing to the situation, even though, as
I always say, the primary responsibility for the _status quo_ in
Lebanon is first and foremost amongst the political parties that make
up the political class here in Lebanon. That being said, outside
powers have continuously aided and abetted them through financial aid,
diplomatic support and other means.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: I’m wondering if you could talk about the role of
Hezbollah in the current situation. Clearly, the Lebanese government
is trying to get financial assistance from the International Monetary
Fund, yet Hezbollah was very closely tied to the Diab government.
Could you talk about that relationship and how this affects the
standing of Hezbollah within the multiparty situation that has existed
in Lebanon for so many years?

ZIAD ABU-RISH: Absolutely. Well, I think we should start by making
clear that Hezbollah is a part of the political system and the
political class in Lebanon. It has participated in various
parliaments. It has participated in various governments. And Hezbollah
is perhaps the most powerful political party here in Lebanon. It has
used this power to buttress the political system in Lebanon, and it
has used that power to oppose and confront protesters in Lebanon. So I
think that’s very important to make clear, and that any fundamental
transformation, as protesters are demanding — _kilon yani kilon_,
all of them means all of them — includes a fundamental rethinking of
the role of Hezbollah in local politics here.

That being said, I think a focus on Hezbollah as the panacea for the
problems of Lebanon misses the broader constellation of political
forces and parties that have helped create, maintain and benefit from
the system in place. I think we need to distinguish between legitimate
criticisms and opposition to Hezbollah as a part of the broader
political and economic system in Lebanon and what I would call
illegitimate criticisms of Hezbollah, those that simply seek to
reshuffle the chairs in Lebanon, to restructure the balance of power
in Lebanon, in the favor of other members of the political class at
the exclusion of Hezbollah. If we think that any solution to the
fundamental problems of Lebanon can be achieved by simply eliminating
Hezbollah from the equation, then we are misreading the situation on
the ground. It is part and parcel of the problem, but as is all major
politicians and all major political parties, especially those that
have been backed by the United States, Saudi Arabia, France and others
in the Western world.

AMY GOODMAN: Ziad, we just have 10 seconds, but do you expect the
protests on the ground in this ravaged capital of Beirut to intensify?

ZIAD ABU-RISH: I do suspect that they will intensify. But as is
always the case, that challenge is: Can they translate their presence
on the ground into meaningful pressure for institutional and
structural change in Lebanon? I wish them the best. I [admire and am]
in awe of their bravery and courage despite repeated crises and
traumas. And we’ll have to wait and see what happens.

AMY GOODMAN: Ziad Abu-Rish, I want to thank you for being with us,
research fellow at the Lebanese Center for Policy Studies in Beirut,
co-director of the master’s program in human rights and the arts at
Bard College.

When we come back, we speak to _The Atlantic_'s Ed Yong about how the
coronavirus has humbled and humiliated the planet's most powerful
nation. Stay with us.

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