Editor’s Note: For those of you who tuned in live, there were some technical difficulties and we apologize. You should be able to hear David better in the video posted here.
Class politics in America are nothing if not contradictory. Executive Editor Susan Demas points out that while Trump rails against elites, his budget “benefits the top 1% at the expense of the poorest 10%,” even as Bernie Sanders launches a “Fighting Oligarchy” tour. The double-edged populism of the moment exposes how billionaires have bent both politics and the economy in their favor.
That tension is the stage for New York Times reporter David Gelles’ new book, Dirtbag Billionaire, which offers a rare counterpoint in the story of Patagonia’s founder, Yvon Chouinard. The contrast reminds us that not all fortunes are wielded to corrode democracy.
The consistency of Chouinard’s environmental activism is what makes him stand out. David explains that “the same things he cared about literally 50 years ago” still drive Patagonia’s mission today, from conservation to climate action. That kind of long-haul focus defies the opportunism of Silicon Valley billionaires who shift politics with the wind. Susan underscores how unusual this is in a landscape where even DEI initiatives vanish when they’re no longer politically convenient.
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The paradox of profit and preservation remains unresolved but unavoidable. David calls it “the tension at the very heart of the book,” where the company must sell gear for outdoor adventure while grappling with the damage that outdoor industries can cause. Patagonia chooses to wrestle with imperfection, suing Trump over public lands and reshaping its corporate structure to funnel profits into environmental fights. Susan ties this to a larger question about Yosemite and other national parks: “Do we have too much human impact in the valley … what’s the risk?”
What makes Patagonia different is its refusal to stay quiet in Trump’s second term. As David observes, “hardly a week goes by” without the company’s CEO weighing in on policy, at a time when most corporations shrink back in fear. Susan frames this as the sharpest contrast of all: Businesses that once condemned Trump now fold, even as his tariffs and economic policies cut into their margins. Silence has become the corporate default, making the outliers matter more.
Tune in for this wide-ranging exchange on oligarchs, contradictions, and the rare company still willing to raise its voice.
