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READ THE BRAZILIAN PRESIDENT’S COMMENTS ON HIS FEUD WITH TRUMP  
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Jack Nicas
July 30, 2025
The New York Times
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_ President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva issued a fierce rejection of
President Trump’s demands for Brazil, but said he was ready for
dialogue. "Brazil’s sovereignty will not be threatened." _

President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva during an interview with The New
York Times on Tuesday., Photo credit: Victor Moriyama for The New York
Times

 

On my final day as The New York Times correspondent in Brazil, I
interviewed the nation’s president.

It wasn’t designed that way; I had been asking for an interview for
four years. It just so happened that as I prepared to depart for a
new post in Mexico
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diplomatic relations between the United States and Brazil ruptured
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This month, President Trump threatened to impose 50 percent tariffs on
Brazilian imports in an extraordinary bid
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intervene in the criminal proceedings against Brazil’s right-wing
former president, Jair Bolsonaro.

President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva of Brazil then fired back
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saying Brazil’s sovereignty will not be threatened.

Brazil’s president demands respect

Mr. Lula says Brazil will not be pushed
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by President Trump.

Now, with Mr. Trump’s tariff deadline looming on Friday, Mr. Lula
and Mr. Trump still had not spoken. So Mr. Lula agreed to sit down
with me, as he explained, to speak to the American public.

Here are edited excerpts from our conversation.

WHAT IS YOUR MESSAGE FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP?

I want to tell Trump that Brazilians and Americans do not deserve to
be victims of politics, if the reason President Trump is imposing this
tax on Brazil is because of the case against former President
Bolsonaro. The Brazilian people will pay more for some products, and
the American people will pay more for other products. And I think the
cause does not merit this. Brazil has a Constitution, and the former
president is being tried with a full right to a defense.

WHY HAVEN’T YOU CALLED AND EXPLAINED THAT TO HIM?

What’s preventing it is that no one wants to talk. I have asked to
make contact. I designated my vice president, my agriculture minister,
my economy minister, so that each can talk to their counterpart to
understand what the possibility for conversation was. So far, it
hasn’t been possible.

Just so you know the timeline, we held 10 meetings on trade with the
U.S. Department of Commerce. On May 16, we sent a letter asking for a
response from the United States. The response we received was through
President Trump’s website, announcing the tariffs on Brazil.

So I hope that civility returns to the Brazil-U.S. relationship. The
tone of his letter is definitely that of someone who doesn’t want to
talk.

MANY OTHER HEADS OF STATE HAVE AVOIDED CRITICIZING PRESIDENT TRUMP
PUBLICLY. BUT YOU’VE BEEN OPENLY CRITICIZING HIM, EVEN CALLING HIM
AN EMPEROR. DO YOU FEAR THIS COULD WORSEN THINGS?

I don’t. There’s no reason to be afraid. I am worried, obviously,
because we have economic interests, political interests, technological
interests. But at no point will Brazil negotiate as if it were a small
country up against a big country. Brazil will negotiate as a sovereign
country.

In politics between two states, the will of neither should prevail. We
always need to find the middle ground. This is achieved not by puffing
out your chest and shouting about things you can’t deliver, nor by
bowing your head and simply saying ‘amen’ to whatever the United
States wants.

SO WHAT HAPPENS IF THE TARIFFS TAKE EFFECT ON FRIDAY?

Do you remember when we were about to turn from 1999 to 2000, and
there was worldwide panic that the computer systems were going to
crash? Nothing happened. So I’m not saying that nothing will happen,
but I am saying that we have to wait for D-Day to know.

YOU’VE SAID THAT WHAT MR. TRUMP IS REQUESTING — AN END TO MR.
BOLSONARO’S CASE — IS NOT NEGOTIABLE. SO WHAT CAN YOU NEGOTIATE
ON?

I think it’s important for President Trump to consider: If he wants
to have a political fight, then let’s treat it as a political fight.
If he wants to talk trade, let’s sit down and discuss trade. But you
can’t mix everything together.

I can’t just send a letter to Trump saying, ‘Listen, Trump, Brazil
won’t do such-and-such if you don’t do such-and-such with Cuba.’
I can’t do that — out of respect for the United States, for
diplomacy, and for the sovereignty of each nation.

So, that’s what I hope he reflects on. I honestly don’t know what
Trump has heard about me. But if he got to know me, he’d know that
I’m 20 times better than (Bolsonaro).

WHAT IS YOUR STRATEGY IF THE TARIFFS TAKE EFFECT?

I’m not going to cry over spilled milk.

If the United States doesn’t want to buy something of ours, we are
going to look for someone who will.

We have an extraordinary trade relationship with China. If the United
States and China want to have a Cold War, we won’t accept it. I have
no preference. I have an interest in selling to whoever wants to buy
from me — to whoever pays more.

Not even my worst enemy could say that Lula doesn’t like to
negotiate. I learned politics by negotiating. I have nothing against
Trump’s ideology. Trump is an issue for the American people to deal
with. They voted for him. End of story. I’m not going to question
the sovereign right of the American people, because I don’t want
them questioning mine.

_Ana Ionova and Lis Moriconi contributed reporting._

_[JACK NICAS is the Brazil bureau chief for The Times, leading
coverage of much of South America.]_
 

* Brazil
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* Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva
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* Lula da Silva
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* Donald Trump
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* Tariffs
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* US policy towards Latin America
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* U.S. foreign policy
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* Jan. 8 in Brazil; Jair Bolsonaro; Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva;
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* China
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* BRICS
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