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'We've Seen This Incredible Flow of Billionaire Money Into Campaigns' Janine Jackson ([link removed])


Janine Jackson interviewed Americans for Tax Fairness's David Kass about billionaire election-buying for the January 31, 2025, episode ([link removed]) of CounterSpin. This is a lightly edited transcript.

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ATF: Billionaire Clans Spend Nearly $2 BILLION On 2024 Elections

Americans for Tax Fairness (10/29/24 ([link removed]) )

Janine Jackson: In October of last year, our guest’s organization reported ([link removed]) that 150 billionaire families had broken the record for billionaire campaign spending, putting some $1.9 billion in the coffers of presidential and congressional candidates, with the 10 biggest billionaire family contributors providing almost half of that total. This dystopian situation is an indication, not just of the spiraling power and wealth of the super rich, but of the relative weakness of the forces set up to countervail that power.

David Kass is executive director of Americans for Tax Fairness ([link removed]) . He joins us now by phone. Welcome to CounterSpin, David Kass.

David Kass: Thank you so much. I'm really glad to be here.

JJ: Tell us a little bit more about what you found in this research on “billionaire clan,” as you call it, spending on the 2024 elections. It was an unprecedented amount of money, yes?
AP: Trump, a populist president, is flanked by tech billionaires at his inauguration

AP (1/20/25 ([link removed]) )

DK: It really is. So we did an analysis of how much billionaire families gave in political contributions to the election, and we found that $1.9 billion have been given in this cycle. And that is really just a shocking amount of money. It is unprecedented, it is a record amount.

And we see the impact of that. Just the inauguration, I think that picture ([link removed]) where you had a number of these billionaires in front of the cabinet, you had Musk ([link removed]) and Bezos ([link removed]) and these other folks who made massive contributions to the campaign, and now they're enjoying the fruits of that, which is really building this incredible amount of influence in this new administration.

JJ: We're going to talk about that influence and that impact, but just some details. First of all, this billionaire spending, it's very concentrated. It's a relatively small group of super-wealthy folks we're talking about, right?

DK: Yeah, exactly. There are 800 billionaires ([link removed]) in the country, and we say 150 billionaire families. And really just a handful of folks gave an enormous amount of that money. So it really is incredibly concentrated.

JJ: Right. And it seems worth saying that this isn't, I don't know why I need to say this, but it isn't families digging deep to show support for candidates they believe in, and putting all their resources towards them. The numbers are huge, but for these people, it's like it's a lunch tab.

DK: It really is. I mean, it'd be like you and I maybe getting something at Starbucks. And we found that the amount of the $1.9 billion, it's $700 million more than we found in the entire 2020 campaign. So the escalation of the money, the amount of money the billionaires are giving, is going dramatically up.

JJ: It's not just that the numbers are bigger because they're richer. It does represent an intensified focus on campaign spending from these billionaires.
Common Dreams: US Plutocrats $276 Billion Richer Since Trump Win—And GOP Wants to Give Them Even More

Common Dreams (11/21/24 ([link removed]) )

DK: That's true. But they also are significantly richer, too. I mean, they really have even more money. The total billionaire wealth has surged by $3.8 trillion ([link removed]) since the passage of the Trump tax law in 2017, and it surged even since the election. So they do have an incredible amount of money, and the money keeps going up.

JJ: It's all intertwined, all of these things. But, again, if the question is the super wealthy's ability to buy power, well, then, the corollary question is, why can't we stop what we see happening? So I guess I would ask why, legally, are we where we are right now?

DK: No, that's a great question. And the Supreme Court, unfortunately, in the Citizens United ([link removed]) case, said that people could spend an unlimited amount of money, as long as it wasn't, as they say, coordinated with the candidates. So that just opened the floodgates. And we've really seen this incredible flow of billionaire money, of corporate money, into campaigns because of it. And I think the solution there is to make sure that we change Citizens United, that there needs to be a constitutional amendment to really roll that back, so that we can make sure that: the richer you are, the bigger your voice is, that's not democracy.

JJ: And lawmakers will always say, “Oh, well yeah, they gave me millions of dollars, but I still just vote the way I want to vote anyway.” And I think a lot of folks buy that narrative, unfortunately. But appearance of conflict of interest is itself a conflict of interest, isn't it? I mean, there's a reason to study these relationships, even as lawmakers are saying, “Oh, I don't care who gives me money, I just vote what's in my heart.”

DK: I wish it were true that everyone was so pure and did that, but we know that's not the case, right? I mean, if you're getting a huge amount of money from somebody, they're going to have power over you. That is just the facts. And somebody like Elon Musk, who gave more than $250 million to Donald Trump in this past presidential election, you can see what that bought him, right? I mean, from his point of view, he's the world's richest man, and that's a good investment. He's buying access, because he has lots of government contracts, and this protects his interests, at the expense of everyday Americans.

JJ: I guess I would lift up here that, maybe people have assumed it, but still your research bore it out, that the majority of this billionaire spending went to Republicans and to Trump. We should just point that out.

DK: That is right.

JJ: Americans for Tax Fairness follows the money to its impacts, its already evident and its easily foreseeable impacts on public policy. So let's move you on to what fallout can we expect to see, with not just the billionaire campaign spending, but then I know you've also worked on the billionaires now in and around the White House. They feel they're buying something. So what can we regular folks expect?
ATF: Billionaires Who Will Dominate Trump Economic Team Eager To Push Policies Making Themselves Even Richer

Americans for Tax Fairness (1/17/25 ([link removed]) )

DK: I think what they expect is that these billionaires who are going to be having enormous influence are going to be enriching themselves and making decisions that benefit the wealthiest people. We did an analysis ([link removed]) that looked at the Trump nominees, and people who are worth a billion or more, and the average worth of the Trump proposed economic policy aides is over $500 million. So half a billion dollars. I mean, the guy proposed for the commerce secretary, Howard Lutnick ([link removed]) , is worth $2 billion. The guy who's the treasury secretary ([link removed]) is worth $1 billion.

You just have to ask yourself, are people who are that wealthy, are they going to really understand the everyday needs of that firefighter, of that single mom, of that teacher, of that plumber? It's just such a rarefied, extraordinary wealth, and they're not going to understand the needs of everyday people.

And they may have their own conflict of interest. For example, Lutnick, who's the proposed commerce secretary, he has interests in cryptocurrency. Is he going to be able to promote his private business interests, or what's really best for the American people? And I think we see these conflicts up and down the line of these people.

JJ: In terms of news media, it's very rankling to me how, if the story is something like retail theft ([link removed]) , we get alarm and outrage, folks boosting baby formula from the CVS is a public concern, and it's maybe the reason that things cost so much. But then a story will blandly note that billionaires or billionaire corporations are getting “favorable tax policy,” as though there were no human harm in that, as though that were the natural order.

Where do you see the role of journalism? Are there things that you would like to see more or less of, in terms of reporting around this set of issues?
American Progress: Tax Cuts Are Primarily Responsible for the Increasing Debt Ratio

American Progress (3/27/23 ([link removed]) )

DK: Absolutely. I think the media really has a responsibility to help tie these pieces together. So what we see is the Republicans are proposing these massive cuts, trillions of dollars in cuts, in programs that families count on, healthcare, education, housing. So taking money, really, out of the pockets of families, to give huge tax cuts to the very wealthy. So giving millions to people who have billions.

And I think the media really has a responsibility to make sure that people understand that this isn't just these cuts to get government more efficient. That’s, of course, what they say. The reality is that they're cutting these programs to pay for tax cuts for billionaires. So I think that narrative is really important.

And I think the other thing is, there was a study ([link removed]) done by the Center for American Progress that showed that 57% of the growth in the federal debt this century is due to the Trump and the Bush tax cuts passed by Republican congresses. So there's this narrative that somehow spending by Democrats was out of control. Well, the truth is that the majority of the debt in this century is due to Trump and Bush tax cuts, which overwhelmingly benefit the rich. So what's driving our debt is tax cuts for the very rich. That's really the problem. And now they're trying to make cuts to pay for this. If it weren't true, it would almost be humorous.

JJ: Right. And I wish the storyline weren't so simplistic, but we sometimes see elite news media present campaign finance reform or regulation or even just fair tax policies the same way that billionaires do: It's kind of like it's punishment for people who worked really hard, you guys. And it's just such a silly storyline. And I feel like the fact that so many people are walking around thinking that the government only helps some people, and other people do it all on their own--that's a failure of news media that also lets down public understanding, and that leads to inadequate public policy.
David Kass

David Kass: "That's the real problem here, is that workers pay taxes every two weeks and billionaires can basically never pay taxes."

DK: I think that's exactly right. And the truth is, and again, what the facts are, is that there are two tax codes. There's one for workers. If you're that firefighter, if you're that teacher, you get a paycheck every two weeks, and you pay taxes on it. But if you're a billionaire, if you're super wealthy, basically you cannot pay taxes on almost any of it, because so much of your stuff is really these investments and stocks and things, which, if you don't sell them, can never be taxed.

And that's why the White House did a study ([link removed]) showing that the wealthiest 400 billionaire families paid an average of 8.2% of their income, when you include their wealth that goes largely untaxed. But average Americans, they pay 13%, so close to double the rate of America's 400 wealthiest families.

So that's the real problem here, is that workers pay taxes every two weeks and billionaires can basically never pay taxes. And that's crazy. For example, if you paid a single penny in taxes this year, you've paid more than Elon Musk did in 2018, or that Jeff Bezos did in 2007 or 2011. So that's a crazy system that we really have to fix.

JJ: And let's talk about fixing it. And I think it's been made clear enough to listeners that your concern about billionaire campaign spending isn't just, billionaires spend a lot of money. It's that they are drowning out the voices and concerns of ordinary Americans. And that's the point. If we have a so-called representative democracy, then this is a problem. So let me ask you, what can we do to change things?

DK: I think there's a number of things. Obviously, people need to share their concerns with their representatives, and to talk about how we shouldn't be cutting key programs that families rely on to pay for tax cuts for the wealthy. So right now, the Republicans are trying to pass this big tax bill, and they're meeting at one of Trump's fancy resorts in Florida to talk about what they're going to do. So this thing is coming, we know it's coming, and we really need to talk about that they're going to spend $4 trillion, $4 trillion, for tax cuts that overwhelmingly benefit the rich. And that is just crazy. That is really crazy.

JJ: Yeah. And are there policies, I mean, it seems like folks are saying, “Why can't we bring back the world before Citizens United?” But maybe we just need a whole new vision. Is there anything in the works, legislatively or policy-wise, apart from vigilance and reporting, that we can look to to support?
ProPublica: When Billionaires Don’t Pay Taxes, People “Lose Faith in Democracy”

ProPublica (2/28/22 ([link removed] Billionaires Don%E2%80%99t Pay Taxes, People %E2%80%9CLose Faith in Democracy%E2%80%9D) )

DK: There are really great things that we can do to make sure that your average family is treated fairly. So the first thing is to let these Trump tax cuts ([link removed]) expire for people who are wealthy. I mean, just let this stuff go. They passed in 2017 and for the wealthy, they shouldn't get any more tax cuts.

And then there's lots of other things that we can do. President Biden, and also the top Democrat on the finance committee, Ron Wyden, had these proposals ([link removed]) to make sure that we were taxing billionaires, so that their wealth, just like when you pay every two weeks, you pay taxes on your paycheck, that they would have to pay taxes on their wealth. And I think that would be a very important change to make sure that we had a much more fair tax system.

And I think the other part of this is, we've talked about, but it is just so undemocratic to have this extreme wealth gap, where billionaires can use this wealth to be able to make a much louder voice than your average American.

So those are some of the things. I think there are things we can do. We've got to stop this bill from passing. People thought when Trump came into office in 2017 that the ACA, Obamacare, was going to be gone, that Republicans would get rid of it, and they didn't, weren’t able to. They tried, but because there was so much backlash, because so many people protested, they lost.

And this is an uphill battle, but we really have to work and organize and fight to show that more tax cuts for the wealthy coming out of the pockets of families is the wrong approach.

JJ: All right then, we'll end on that note. We've been speaking with David Kass from Americans for Tax Fairness. Their work is online at AmericansForTaxFairness.org ([link removed]) .

Thank you so much, David Kass, for joining us this week on CounterSpin.

DK: Thank you so much. It was great talking to you.


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