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MEET LUCIE CASTETS, THE FRENCH LEFT’S NOMINEE FOR PRIME MINISTER  
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Harrison Stetler
October 18, 2024
Jacobin [[link removed]]

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_ After the New Popular Front won July’s French elections, it
nominated Lucie Castets for prime minister. Emmanuel Macron ignored
the result. Castets told Jacobin how the left-wing coalition can build
on its progress and stop the lurch to the right. _

Lucie Castets 2024 (portrait), by Tomkiou (CC0 1.0)

 

This July 7, after President Emmanuel Macron called surprise elections
for France’s National Assembly, voters elected a parliament with no
overall majority. While polls indicated probable victory for Marine Le
Pen’s Rassemblement National (RN), it was the left-wing Nouveau
Front Populaire (NFP) that came first
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with 192 of the 577 MPs. As the largest force, the NFP would,
according to custom, have been tapped to form a government. On July
23, it nominated Lucie Castets, then a relatively obscure civil
servant, for prime minister.

Macron, however, was determined to block the NFP from power. On
September 4, he picked the right-winger Michel Barnier as the new
premier
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sealing an uneasy alliance
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between the Macronist bloc and the conservative Républicains party.
Barnier is a member of the latter, the fifth-biggest force in the
lower house, holding just forty-seven seats. Tasked with preserving
the president’s agenda, Barnier is now preparing a rigid austerity
budget for 2025, including €40 billion of spending cuts and
temporary windfall taxes. Yet Barnier’s coalition — which totals
just over two hundred seats in the new assembly, far short of the 289
needed for an absolute majority — will need the support
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right to survive in the months ahead
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Castets cofounded the organization Nos Services Publics, an NGO
dedicated to the protection of state-provided services. She sat down
with _Jacobin_’s Harrison Stetler for a discussion on Macron’s
refusal to allow her to form a government, Barnier’s agenda, and the
political crisis in France.

HARRISON STETLER Let’s start with the latest news. October 8 saw a
first motion of no confidence against new prime minister Michel
Barnier. The vote to oust him was rejected largely along party lines,
with only the NFP and a few independent centrists supporting the
motion; the Rassemblement National abstained. What did this show us?

LUCIE CASTETS What it revealed — if a reminder was even necessary
— is the fact that this government is totally at the mercy of the
Rassemblement National (RN). The RN’s current line is “For now
we’ll let you stay in place, but you’ll have to prove yourself.”

This government is totally at the mercy of the Rassemblement National.

HARRISON STETLER It can be argued that Macron, in nominating Barnier,
was seeking a government that might reflect a parliament that is
heavily conservative. Even if the Right is divided between several
blocs, is it not the political center of gravity?

LUCIE CASTETS I don’t believe that the political center of gravity
in France is on the Right. One thing can’t be denied: the Left came
out on top in summer’s elections. It presented itself as a coalition
under the banner of the Nouveau Front Populaire, sharing out the
constituencies among its joint candidates. All this was made very
clear to the electorate — and that coalition finished with the
largest share of seats. We can’t say that France is totally
right-wing. That the Left came out on top is very significant and
revealing.

In this election, the Rassemblement National was defeated in the
runoff votes. I’m not entirely happy with the results of the second
round, of course. We still have the Rassemblement National at its
height, gaining a huge share of seats compared to the last parliament.
It represents a major threat, even more than in the past. Emmanuel
Macron has not taken this threat seriously. This new government is the
result of closed-door discussions. It reflects neither the strength of
the Left nor the French people’s expressed desire for a change in
political direction.

HARRISON STETLER You’re quite understandably discussing the
second-round results. Others, including figures in Barnier’s
government, prefer to point to the first-round vote, which saw the
Rassemblement National in first place.

LUCIE CASTETS That’s not how it works. Parliamentary elections
result in the election of one MP per constituency. Of course, the Left
did not win an absolute majority. But on the other hand, these
elections sent a very clear signal that the president has been in
denial about: people want a change in the political direction of this
country. Ultimately, that applies for the people who voted for the
Nouveau Front Populaire, which came out on top without an absolute
majority, and those who voted for the Rassemblement National.

Yet it’s remarkable now how little has changed. It’s Emmanuel
Macron who single-handedly decided on the dissolution of the National
Assembly last June, just as it was Emmanuel Macron who put this
government together. Don’t think for a minute that he didn’t
approve all the ministers in the government. He was the one who chose
his prime minister after months of delay. He clearly doesn’t seem to
have understood what the French want.

This new government reflects neither the strength of the Left nor the
French people’s expressed desire for a change in political
direction.

HARRISON STETLER Before agreeing on you as their nominee, the parties
of the NFP sparred for several weeks over a possible candidate. At
times it even appeared as if the alliance might break apart. Did the
NFP make it easy for Macron to reject a left-wing nominee?

LUCIE CASTETS I remember the frustration. I was both an average voter
who supported the NFP and an organizer who did a lot of work for the
campaign from my civil society role at the Nos Services Publics
collective. I remember thinking to myself, how do we respond to people
at a dinner party when they jokingly say, “Oh well, maybe it is just
time to give the RN a chance”? I’d spent my nights campaigning and
I was disappointed and worried that the union of parties would
explode. From below, however, the aspiration for unity was and remains
immense.

HARRISON STETLER What is it that ultimately made you their pick?

LUCIE CASTETS The somewhat practical or even cynical reason would be
that each party found it unbearable to be represented by a figure from
one of the other parties, not someone from their own camp. But I also
think there is a growing realization within the parties that civil
society needs to be given a major role on the Left. What we’re
seeing is that parties obey their own internal logic. They get bogged
down in fighting for their own positions. That’s normal; it’s
linked to the way party structures work and to their democratic
function. Parties are very useful for structuring thought and
ideological debate. But they will only be as useful as they can be if
they maintain an open dialogue, which we’ve been able to keep going
up to now.

HARRISON STETLER When Macron refused to approve your nomination, I can
imagine the disappointment.

LUCIE CASTETS It’s funny, because everyone tells me that: “You
must have been very disappointed.” But it’s not that simple. It
had become quite clear that he would marginalize and avoid us by any
means. What I knew, though, was that we had to be beyond reproach and
do things as cleanly as possible. And I think that we did just that.
We went to see him united as a bloc, agreeing that it was my
responsibility to open the negotiations. We played the institutional
game: we went and we said, here’s what we propose. We gave Emmanuel
Macron no opportunity to go on and say, “Oh no, they’re a bunch of
clowns.”

HARRISON STETLER What was the tenor of the negotiations with Macron?

LUCIE CASTETS We on the Left had to be beyond reproach and do things
as cleanly as possible. And I think that we did just that.

As everyone knows about Macron, he tells you what you want to hear. It
was a courteous exchange. People have claimed that I was too
optimistic in my first remarks to the press afterwards. In fact, I
chose to relay quite simply what he had told me and make him face up
to his responsibilities too. He said that the French want a change of
political direction and so I obviously repeated that.

HARRISON STETLER In two public letters released in August, you laid
out the priorities of a potential NFP government and called for
parliament to have a renewed place in French politics. What’s the
roadmap for a left-wing government in a National Assembly like this?

LUCIE CASTETS Our call for a change of governing methods is one of the
major points that distinguishes us from Macron. We want to govern
differently and would not shy away from the need to compromise and
reach agreements in parliament. Emmanuel Macron has stretched our
society and institutions to their limits by trying to work without any
dialogue with intermediary bodies like trade unions or even
parliament. We could even add his cabinet to that list. I don’t know
if there has ever been a president in French history who has taken the
lead on so many policy initiatives, going over the heads even of his
own ministers.

But we also laid out our priorities and principles, from the need to
strengthen public services like health and education and invest
directly in the ecological transition to increasing ordinary
people’s purchasing power. We also needed to show that our plan is
well grounded financially. We’re not the lunatics burning up the
Treasury. That’s what Macron’s government has been doing for seven
years now.

HARRISON STETLER Is there a risk of watering down the promise for
social and democratic “rupture” at the core of the NFP program?

LUCIE CASTETS Our goal was to build off our program by choosing issues
where we thought it would be possible to build agreements in the
National Assembly, also with votes from beyond the NFP itself. On
public services, for example, even many right-wing MPs would have a
hard time explaining to their constituents why they did not vote for a
bill to fund schools and hospitals. So we would have been able to
choose which “rupture” measures would make it through this
parliament while waiting for the Left to come to power.

HARRISON STETLER Just about every force beyond the left-wing alliance
itself pledged a no-confidence vote to bring down a potential NFP
government. Perhaps what’s most frightening in France these days is
how far the Left has been delegitimized. How do we fight back against
this?

LUCIE CASTETS We have a major cultural battle to fight. This means
explaining that what we’re proposing in terms of fiscal policies and
ecological investments is credible — and works. We need to make it
clearer to people that maintaining the status quo is the real danger.
People often say that the Left is proposing things that can’t be
done. But what’s unrealistic is not preparing for the direction that
our society is heading. We’re struggling to get this message out and
we need to work on it. I’ve been struck by this for quite a long
time: the Left is sometimes inaudible, and many people aren’t
turning to us to prepare for that future. We have a lot of work to do
in terms of talking to more people and taking more ownership of the
way they express their needs, demands, and concerns.

People often say that the Left is proposing things that can’t be
done. But what’s unrealistic is not preparing for the direction that
our society is heading.

HARRISON STETLER For now, though, it’s the Right that has clung on
to power and they’re preparing a draconian austerity budget for
2025. What is this shaping up like?

LUCIE CASTETS It’s disastrous, quite simply — and it’s linked to
one of the cultural battles that we need to win. That the government
is proposing such drastic budget cuts is directly linked to the
mistakes made by the president over the last seven years. We must stop
thinking that the difficulties we find ourselves in come out of
nowhere. They’re the result of political choices that weren’t the
right ones, namely the enormous hole in revenues created by years of
tax cuts.

The second point is that we’re in a situation where we’re going to
intervene against what even standard economic theory would recommend.
We’re hovering on the brink of a recession, and we’re going to
continue to cut spending, which will further compress economic
activity. Above all, this budget will further cut back public
services, which are already in a deplorable state. We should be
investing massively in public services. There are also many economic
inefficiencies. For example, reducing reimbursements for medical
services and checkups will further push people to pay for private
plans. But we know that in the very long term, this will cost a lot
more.

HARRISON STETLER Barnier’s plan does include temporary windfall
taxes, crossing one of Macron’s alleged red lines. Isn’t this a
major shift?

LUCIE CASTETS It’s important to remember that Barnier is proposing
€20 billion in exceptional tax revenue, whereas Emmanuel Macron’s
policies have led to €60 billion less revenue per year. The taxes
look like they’re going to be a one-shot deal, whereas the €60
billion revenue hole is permanent. It’s a very minimal concession
compared to what has been done. The Macronists have made lowering
taxes a dogmatic totem, and so the president and his allies see
raising taxes as a kind of breach in their tacit pact with the Right.

The prime minister is aware that he couldn’t just find €60 billion
in savings by cutting spending alone; €40 billion in savings is
already very hard to come by. They’re worried about what feelings
this might provoke among the population. We’re making the working
classes and the least well-off pay for the tax gifts that Emmanuel
Macron has given to the largest companies and the wealthiest
households during his seven years in power.

We’re hovering on the brink of a recession, and we’re going to
continue to cut spending, which will further compress economic
activity.

HARRISON STETLER Based on your experience as a civil servant and as an
activist for public services, what will these cuts mean?

LUCIE CASTETS Our public services are already stretched to their
limits. People are dying in emergency room corridors. Some ERs are
closed at night. For example, the infant mortality rate is on the rise
in France. In my son’s school, rainwater leaks from the hallway
ceilings. At schools in Seine-Saint-Denis, there are whole classes
that have to make do with teacher shortages that sometimes add up to
several months of lost schooling. What that boils down to is children
finishing elementary school who can’t read or write as well as
others. We have to think about the long-term consequences.

HARRISON STETLER On October 9, the NFP came out with its counter
proposal for increasing public revenues, including new taxes on
capital and a climate-weighted wealth tax. What would you like to see
adopted?

LUCIE CASTETS These are proposals that have been in preparation for
months by a team of economists, policy experts, and party
representatives. Our alliance’s program calls for €150 billion in
new annual revenue by 2027. For now, we’re proposing €49 billion
in additional revenue for the 2025 budget. We’re only going to touch
on revenue sources that will have little or no negative impact on
economic activity. We’re really going after the most privileged
classes, those who today contribute proportionally little to the
national effort.

HARRISON STETLER One cultural battle that the Left seems to be losing
is on the question of taxation.

LUCIE CASTETS That’s true. But again, take the [Barnier
government’s plan] to reduce public spending on reimbursements for
medical consultations. This leads directly to more payments to private
insurance companies. In other words, we’re replacing a socialized
expense with a multitude of private expenses that cost more on
average. It’s what you see in the United States. The average
American pays much more for their health care than the average French
person does through taxes.

The working classes and the least well-off are paying for the tax
gifts that Emmanuel Macron has given to the largest companies and the
wealthiest households.

If we can demonstrate this very concretely, I think it will get into
people’s heads. The problem is that many people view taxes as a
waste of money and thus a loss for them. But when you look at the
public services that are financed by taxes, two-thirds of households
are net beneficiaries. We’ve not made it clear enough what our taxes
are used for.

HARRISON STETLER Beyond an austerity budget, do you think there’s a
risk of a new offensive against the rights of foreigners in France?
Bruno Retailleau, Barnier’s interior minister, is already gearing up
for one.

LUCIE CASTETS It’s very worrying. The interior minister has
explicitly called into question
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the rule of law itself. I dare to hope that if there’s an
immigration bill that makes the situation even tougher, then a wing of
the Macronist bloc will do something about it. I’m being very
sincere. I met an MP from Horizons [a center-right party in
Barnier’s governing coalition] in this very café who told me that
he entirely disagrees with the government’s escalation on
immigration.

HARRISON STETLER If the Barnier government falls, what should the Left
do? The NFP’s official line is that you’re its pick for as long as
this parliament lasts, but others are clamoring for a figure more
amenable to Macron.

LUCIE CASTETS There’s a power struggle over what I represent: the
NFP alliance, bringing together four party structures. One wing of the
alliance — what some call the “elephants” of the Parti
Socialiste — is against any pact with France Insoumise. So they put
the viability of the alliance at the heart of the question of picking
a potential prime minister.

On a personal level, I don’t make much of an issue over whether
I’m the candidate or not. What I think is most important is that
there must be _a_ candidate. If it’s not going to be me, it needs to
be someone who has sufficient legitimacy among the parties to lead a
government. Since I appeared to be the solution, I didn’t shy away
from it and I said okay. If it turns out that I’m no longer the
solution and we manage to find another figure who can bring us
together, that’s no problem for me.

HARRISON STETLER France Insoumise is the target of much criticism from
the Left and beyond, whether for its lack of internal democracy or its
devotion to Jean-Luc Mélenchon. What do you make of these critiques?

LUCIE CASTETS I’m not a member of France Insoumise, so I can’t say
much about their internal dynamics. What I can say is that they were
supportive this summer and have been good partners. Over the long
term, they have significant strengths in terms of voter mobilization
and the production of ideas. When [Macron] asked me if there would be
France Insoumise ministers in our government, I obviously said yes.

The Left needs a single candidate for 2027, and everyone has to be
responsible and put their energy behind the most legitimate runner.

I do have my differences in terms of political style and culture.
Sometimes they use terms that are not necessarily my own or the ones
I’d use, but we don’t have to agree on everything. In any case, I
think that anything that leads to caricaturing other people’s
positions, whether it’s France Insoumise or the right wing of the
Parti Socialiste, only makes it harder to preserve the unity that is
expected of us.

HARRISON STETLER Will Olivier Faure, the first secretary of the Parti
Socialiste, be able to contain the revolt in his party by figures
opposed to participating in the NFP?

LUCIE CASTETS For now, Faure is holding the line and the Parti
Socialiste remains in the NFP. But there are differences of opinion
within the PS. That isn’t necessarily a bad thing. We just have to
distinguish between fruitful debates and excessive personal ambitions.

HARRISON STETLER Personal ambition is only going to become more
central as we approach the 2027 presidential elections.

LUCIE CASTETS That’s the great danger. The Left needs a single
candidate, and everyone has to be responsible and put their energy
behind the most legitimate runner. Obviously, it won’t be easy to
decide who that should be.

HARRISON STETLER If there’s fresh parliamentary elections next
summer, will you run?

LUCIE CASTETS It’s too early to tell when there’ll be new
elections. Nobody saw the dissolution of the National Assembly coming
this past June. But it’s important to have democratic legitimacy,
and I have great respect for our representatives. I’ve had the
advantage of being from outside that world, so it’d be a change of
position for me. I’m not entirely sure.

_Lucie Castets is a French civil servant and activist for the defense
of public services. In July 2024, she was picked as prime ministerial
candidate by the parties of the Nouveau Front Populaire alliance._

_Harrison Stetler is a freelance journalist and teacher based in
Paris._

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left, offering socialist perspectives on politics, economics, and
culture. The print magazine is released quarterly and reaches 75,000
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* Socialist Party of France
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* jean-luc melanchon
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* France Insoumise
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