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NORD STREAM PIPELINE BOMBING  
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Amy Goodman and Holger Stark
August 16, 2024
Democracy Now
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_ Ukrainian Suspect Flees Arrest _

The Nord Stream 1 and 2 pipelines carried natural gas from Russia to
Germany under the Baltic Sea but were damaged by explosions in
September 2022., AP

 

Ukraine’s government has denied a _Wall Street Journal_ report this
week that Kyiv approved the plan to blow up the Russian-owned Nord
Stream pipelines in 2022. According to the newspaper, a crew of
Ukrainian civilians and active-duty soldiers used a rented yacht to
reach the pipelines, which deliver Russian natural gas to Germany via
the Baltic Sea, and used explosives to sever three of the four
pipelines. This comes as Poland says it was unable to carry out a
German arrest warrant for a new suspect in its investigation into the
Nord Stream attack, a 44-year-old Ukrainian diving professional who is
alleged to have attached explosive charges to the pipelines. Polish
authorities say the suspect fled to Ukraine in July. For more on the
investigation, we speak with German journalist Holger Stark, deputy
editor-in-chief and head of the investigative team at _Die Zeit_, who
has been reporting on the Nord Stream attack for years.

AMY GOODMAN: This is _Democracy Now!_, democracynow.org. I’m Amy
Goodman.

We end today’s show looking at how a top adviser to the Ukrainian
President Volodymyr Zelensky has denied a report
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in _The Wall Street Journal_ that his government approved a plan to
blow up the Nord Stream pipelines nearly two years ago.

In September of 2022, a six-member crew of Ukrainian civilians and
active-duty soldiers reportedly used a rented yacht, satellite
navigation, sonar, and seabed maps to reach the Nord Stream pipelines
on the bottom of the Baltic Sea. Then divers used an explosive and
timer-controlled detonators to rupture the pipelines, triggering a
massive release of methane gas. The blasts severed three of the four
pipelines that carried Russian gas to Europe.

President Zelensky reportedly approved the plan, but later tried to
stop it after a Dutch intelligence agency learned of the plot and told
the CIA. But his commander-in-chief at the time, Valery Zaluzhnyi,
forged ahead despite Zelensky’s U-turn.

This comes as Poland says it was unable to carry out an arrest warrant
issued by Germany for a new suspect in the investigation into the Nord
Stream attack, a 44-year-old Ukrainian diving professional identified
as “Volodymyr Z.” who’s alleged to have attached explosive
charges to the pipelines. Polish authorities say the suspect fled to
Ukraine in July.

For more, we’re joined in Berlin by Holger Stark, deputy
editor-in-chief and head of the investigative team at Germany’s
biggest weekly, _Die Zeit_. He co-wrote this new exclusive report
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“Has the mystery of the Baltic Sea attack been solved?” as well as
last year’s deep dive
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headlined “Who Blew Up Nord Stream?”

Welcome to _Democracy Now!_, Holger. Can you just lay out what you
found? We summarized your results.

HOLGER STARK: Good morning, Amy, and thanks for having me.

Yes, we know, after a almost two-year-long investigation now, that at
least one Ukrainian citizen is highly suspected to be a part of this
six-people crew that blew up Nord Stream. He’s a father of a son. He
was born in Kyiv. He is an engineer by training but also served in the
Ukrainian army. We know that he’s a patriot. He posted on Facebook,
together with his colleagues, highly patriotic Ukrainian posts, that
he would defend until death his home country.

And his traces were found by German investigators. He was brought by a
shuttle service, a driver from Ukraine, from Kyiv over Poland, via
Poland to Germany. A speed camera, funnily, made a photo of that
transport crew. He was identified on that photo, as well. So the
German authorities are deeply convinced that he was on that sailing
boat.

He probably had a special role in that attack, because he is a highly
skilled diver. He’s capable of operating in the depth of 240 feet,
which is only something that a few divers are capable of. It needs
special training, special expertise. And remember, those pipelines of
Nord Stream were in a depth of exactly that 240 feet in the Baltic
Sea. So he probably was one of the guys who dove down to the bottom of
the Baltic Sea and was bringing the charge to the pipelines.

AMY GOODMAN: And if you can explain, who investigated, in terms of
countries — Sweden and Denmark both leading investigations into the
blast, but closed them? And yet you have Germany — you’re in
Berlin — which continued, and you are now reporting what you think
are their findings.

HOLGER STARK: Yes. It was initially a four-country investigation.
Denmark and Sweden, you’ve mentioned that. The Netherlands also
investigated. And, of course, Germany, because it disrupted the gas
transport pipeline between Russia and Germany, and also this sailing
boat departed here from a German harbor. Now it’s only the German
investigation; everything else is closed.

The Germans merged all forensic indications. And in June, they came to
the conclusion that this is enough, that they probably were able to
identify at least parts of that crew. They went to a court and
obtained that arrest warrant. They hoped, significantly, to get hold
of that guy, who used to live in a suburb of Warsaw, the capital of
Poland. So, in June, they transferred the arrest warrant to the Polish
government. They also spoke on the highest levels of the government
— to the government in Poland and were really hoping that the Polish
authorities would arrest the 44-year-old diver. He then disappeared in
July suddenly. And the saying in Berlin is that there’s a high
plausibility that someone within the Polish authorities, the Polish
government, tipped off the guy. Remember, the old Polish government,
who used to be in charge last year, was highly in support of Ukraine,
and there were a lot of people, including the government, who said,
“Those guys who blew up Nord Stream, they our heroes and not
criminals.”

AMY GOODMAN: I want to go to President Biden. In February of 2022, he
holds a news conference, a joint one with German Chancellor Olaf
Scholz, and Biden brings up the future of the Nord Stream pipeline.

PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: If Russia invades, that means tanks or troops
crossing the border of Ukraine again. Then there will be — there
will be no longer Nord Stream 2. We will bring an end to it.

ANDREA SHALAL: But how would you — how will you do that exactly,
since the project and control of the project is within Germany’s
control?

PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: We will — I promise you, we will be able to do
it.

AMY GOODMAN: “We promise you we’ll be able to do it.” Your
response?

HOLGER STARK: Well, you can read this in two ways. You can read this
in a threat of military action, but also you can read it in a sense of
a political action, diplomatic pressure. And, I mean, we all remember
those days, starting with the Trump administration, by the way, where
the U.S. government clearly wanted the Germans to stop with that
project, to stop Nord Stream as a pipeline, because that pipeline
bypassed Ukraine. It made Ukraine dispensable. It was a direct
connection between Russia and Germany, was a direct trade of gas
between the two countries. And it started with the Trump
administration that they executed a lot of power, diplomatic pressure
on Germany. So did the Biden administration in the beginning.

But also have in mind, Amy, that later on, President Biden released
the sanctions pressure against Germany. He cut some kind of political
deal with the German government, especially with German Chancellor
Olaf Scholz. Those two guys got along really well. And I read it the
way that Biden said: When it comes to the worst, when Russia is indeed
invading Ukraine, we will make sure, with our German partners, that
this gas transport is no longer existing. So, it’s not a threat of
military action, in my opinion, but a threat to use any diplomatic
means to stop that.

AMY GOODMAN: So, we only have two minutes left, but I wanted you to
lay out what you understand happened and also respond to the Ukrainian
President Zelensky, who says this isn’t true.

HOLGER STARK: I think the picture is quite clear two years after the
attack. There was a group of Ukrainians who were willing to risk their
lives to stop that pipeline. Everybody in Ukraine would consider them
to be heroes. So, they had a chain of command within the Ukrainian
military. They went up that chain. The operation was authorized at
least, probably, by General Zaluzhnyi, at that time the head of the
Ukrainian army. And we just don’t know at the end how far up in the
chain the whole project went.

There are two different versions. One is that President Zelensky was
left out intentionally for plausible deniability, but it would be
enough that the head of the army authorized the operation. And the
second scenario says that Zelensky was in the loop, but after CIA
executed some pressure on the Ukrainian army, he stepped back and
tried to stop the plot, but the command was already on its way, and it
was impossible to stop the operation happening.

But in both scenarios, it is an Ukrainian operation, it is within
Ukrainians’ responsibility, and it raises significant political
questions. Germany is the second-biggest supporter of Ukraine, no
doubt about that. But this attack must be debated on a political
level, as well.

AMY GOODMAN: And what about the other suspects, Holger?

HOLGER STARK: Well, we know at least some descriptions about the guys.
We have some photos of them. We have some false names, but I’m
pretty convinced that German investigators will find out at the end
who was on board of that sailing yacht. We might not be able to solve
that mystery at the end politically, but I’m quite sure that we
will, after some time, know who exactly executed that attack, who was
the perpetrators.

AMY GOODMAN: I want to thank you very much for being with us, Holger
Stark, deputy editor-in-chief, head of the investigative team at
Germany’s biggest weekly, _Die Zeit_. He wrote their new exclusive
report
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“Has the mystery of the Baltic Sea attack been solved?”

That does it for our show. Tune in all next week, August 19th through
the 23rd, as _Democracy Now!_ broadcasts from the Democratic National
Convention in Chicago, “Breaking with Convention: War, Peace and the
Presidency.” We’re expanding to two hours daily.

We also have job openings at _Democracy Now!_, currently accepting
applications for director of development to support our fundraising
efforts, and archives intern
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democracynow.org. I’m Amy Goodman. Thanks so much for joining us.

The original content of this program is licensed under a Creative
Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-No Derivative Works 3.0 United
States License [[link removed]].
Please attribute legal copies of this work to democracynow.org. Some
of the work(s) that this program incorporates, however, may be
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permissions, contact us.

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