Shoshana Bryen: You are co-founder of the
UAE-Israel Business Council. Please talk to us about something that
appears to have gone missing in the US press. How do Israel’s Abraham
Accords partners see this war for Israel’s defense? What can you tell
us about the Algerian proposal at the Islamic Summit that was shot
down by the Accords members plus Saudi Arabia?
Fleur Hassan-Nahoum: We have to understand that
in the Arab world, rhetoric and actions are not always the same
things. In the case of the UAE and Bahrain, which have made peace with
Israel, that peace is not going anywhere. And the main reason is that
they experienced their own threats from the Muslim Brotherhood, which
the UAE kicked out of the country about 10 years ago. Bahrain,
similarly. And Saudi Arabia has spent a good part of the last decade
really trying to get rid of the Wahhabi fundamentalists, which are
really the same as the Muslim Brotherhood, from their country.
So many of the moderate and forward looking of the countries in the
Arab world understand something what we've seen for a while now: the
region is split in two. There are countries that want peace and
prosperity and advancement for their people. And there are the
countries that want fundamentalism and a structured
jihadimentality essentially setting them back 500
years. And we all know which side Iran is in this equation, and that
Iran has been prolific in creating proxies for their war.
So, Hamas is in Gaza, but we’ve also got Hezbollah to the north of
Israel in southern Lebanon. They've destroyed Lebanon. They've
destroyed Syria. They've got people in Yemen, in Afghanistan, in Iraq,
and these places are all the properties of Iran – which really does
want to split the region into exactly what I've been talking
about.
I'm not worried about the long-term health of the Abraham Accords.
But of course, those countries have to be very careful because in the
“Arab street” the Palestinian cause plays well. They’re also concerned
about their own fundamentalists, who could come back into their
countries. So, they've got to play this game where they condemn
Israel, but on the other hand, everybody knows they're not moving, and
they're not going to be turning back the Abraham Accords.
Bryen: At the Islamic Summit, the Algerians
proposed severing all diplomatic and economic relations with Israel,
denying Arab airspace to Israeli flights, and oil-producing Muslim
countries threatening “to use oil as a means of leverage." In line
with what you said, the proposal was shot down by the Abraham Accords
countries, plus Saudi Arabia and a few others.
Hassan-Nahoum: Exactly. And this is why the
Abraham Accords are so important, so strategic – not just because of
the development of the economy and innovation of the region, but
because ultimately these moderate Arab countries are presenting an
alternative to the whole region going up in flames with these
Jihadists.
Bryen: You also have hopes, then, for continuing
rapprochement with Saudi Arabia after the war?
Hassan-Nahoum: Yes. The main thing that Saudi
Arabia was always looking for has been a defense pact with the United
States. What they need is the big player – the biggest player in the
world, the US – to be there for them if they actually get into
hostilities with Iran, which of course has now aligned itself with
China and Russia, and all the bad guys. Essentially that's what the
Saudis are really interested in. And of course, peace with Israel
comes with the package; that's the price they have to pay. That's what
was happening before the war. I think that it has been put on hold,
but I don't think it's been derailed completely.
Bryen: You are Deputy Mayor of Jerusalem – the
capital of Israel and the Jewish people, but also a diverse,
multicultural and multireligious city. What can you tell us about the
feeling in Jerusalem these days?
Hassan-Nahoum: Absolutely. It is the most diverse
city in the country: 40 percent of the population of Jerusalem is Arab
Muslim, 5 percent is Christian, and the rest Jews – with the
ultra-Orthodox and the secular and everything in between. Right now,
when people ask me what's going on in Jerusalem, I tell them Jerusalem
has become – overnight – a city of refuge. We have almost 50,000
evacuees from the north and the south of the country. We're very busy
helping them with anything they need – from clothes to social services
to schooling for their children. We're very busy.
There is a kind of quiet tension, and sometimes not even tension,
because we're used to having these hostilities with the different
proxies of Iran – with Hamas, with Hezbollah. But now we have found a
way of living together that, I would say, I haven't seen for a long
time. There are no fundamentalists there, but there are issues.
Unfortunately, a young woman, an American immigrant, was killed last
week, stabbed by a terrorist. We also had an incident of a shooting
two weeks ago. But on the whole, Jerusalem is relatively calm in the
midst of all of this.
Bryen: That's good to hear. And we also hear lots
of very heroic, positive stories about Israel's Arab citizen
population. Do you feel that they have come to see themselves more as
Israelis?
Hassan-Nahoum: That is a really interesting
question. Im the first few days with the shock and horror of the
massacre, many, many Arabs said, essentially, “Not in Our Name.”
[Ed. Referencing an originally American protest organization; the
tag line has been used in various ways.] Also, remember that
Hamas brutally murdered at least 20 Arabs. We also believe there are a
few in captivity. And many Arab citizens bravely saved tens and tens
of people and put themselves and their families at risk to save Jews.
There is a sense of mutual appreciation and sympathy and empathy for
what's happened; what we've shared together. Many, many Arabs have
come out and said, "This is not what we want, this is not how we were
brought up. Not in Our Name."
Bryen: That's a great answer.
You are on your way to what may prove to be the largest pro-Israel
rally ever held in the United States. The rally has enormous support
from non-Jewish Americans – Evangelicals get a special shout-out here.
What is your message to the rally participants about Israel and also
about US-Israel relations in the future?
Hassan-Nahoum: Unfortunately, we are considering
this right now because of the horrific and massive Hamas attack, but
one thing we have always been very clear about is that the
Jewish people are one family. Whether we are here or we are there,
whether you're a Jewish person in the diaspora or an Israeli, we're
one family. Sometimes we argue, sometimes we don't see eye to eye. But
when it counts, we are there for each other and we are one people.
We are one heart.
Bryen: And US-Israel relations. How do you see the
United States and Israel moving together in the future?
Hassan-Nahoum: Everybody in Israel really
appreciates President Biden's support, his empathy, the way he came to
Israel immediately, the way he embraced us in our moments of pain. And
we very much appreciate that warm embrace, the friendship. And so, we
have great appreciation.
And I think America understands, as well, that Israel is not
fighting a local war. Israel is on the frontline of civilization
between the Free World and jihadi fundamentalism. I think
that we all understand that we're doing this for the good of the Free
World and each other, and we are very grateful for the Americans
backing us in such a way.
Bryen: Thank you for the great answer - optimistic
and realistic, and we appreciate it. And as I said to you first thing
this morning, I am personally very pleased to have had this
opportunity. We all wish you great success at the rally and in your
pursuit of a better Middle East for all its people.
Thank you for being with us.
Hassan-Nahoum: It was my pleasure.